ABOUT THE INTERVIEWEE:
Odili Ujubuoñu was born in Ukpor, Anambra State Nigeria. He has a degree in Political Science and an M.A in History from the University of Nigeria, Nsukka and University of Lagos. Odili has been referred to in several quarters as one of the few heirs of the Achebean tradition. He is the author of Pregnancy of the Gods, (2006) ANA/Jacaranda Prize Winner for 2006 and Treasure in the Winds (2008) ANA/Chevron Prize Winner for 2008. The book was also a nominee of the Nigerian Prize for Literature same year . Odili has worked in the business of Advertising as a copy writer for over twenty years. He lives in Lagos with his wife, Chinelo and Children.
JEFF UNAEGBU
You are very welcome, Sir Odili Ujubuoñu. I feel that I am face to face with another Achebe. Yes, the novel, Pride of the Spider Clan, posseses a very rich and pulsating African culture. This is a very important and admirable feat as the novel is likely to be a beacon for present and future research into Igbo culture. In this respect, the following fulcra stand out: The detailing of local politics [ pg 17, line 4, 5], the descriptive aura of an Mmonwu initiation ceremony [pg 177], the narrative power in an isi-ani funeral rites [pg. 364], the inheritance of the ancestral obi nad ofo [pg 16], the use of utilitarian Igbo proverbs [pg 107, line 26], Circumcision [pg. 54, line 23]etc. All these leave one to wonder if the author (a modern writer by any standard) had any direct African indigenous experiences in this ultra-modern times, especially because his times contrast sharply with the period he was writing about [just after the arrival of the albinos in a houseboat as predicted by the long Juju, Ibinukpabi, pg 305, line 1-4)? For though, I am aware you researched the Aro and Okirika culture and the Nsibidi ancient writings of the Ekpe cult as is fairly indicated in your acknowledgements, I intuitively feel that there is something deeper and emotional coming from your direct personal experiences other than from a scholarly research for a novel in the Pride of the Spider Clan. I hope I am not being overly sensitive?
ODILI UJUBUOÑU
Without trying to sound mysterious, I am a conscript of the Muse. I had some encounters which I mentioned in my acknowledgements in ‘Treasure in the Winds.’ I had a dream where an old woman appeared to me at the bank of Niger River introducing herself as Nzammili the goddess of stories. I also encountered two scarified midgets who prepared me for some inner workings in the Ozo initiations. All happened in my dreams and at different stages of writing the books ‘Pregnancy of the Gods,’ ‘Treasure in the Winds’ and ‘Pride of the Spider Clan.’ Who knows maybe I am a reincarnate of my family’s old souls. Having said that I must confess that I come from an old family in Igboland where the obi tradition is very strong. We kept so much of our family history in lore that is handed over from generation to generation. We still name our children by the market days they were born. Mine is Nwokafor and my children all have theirs and can tell you without any hesitance, should you ask. My great grandfather had a bitter encounter with the Colonial government which made them resist Christianity for a very long time. We became Christians much later than 60 years ago so there were a lot of the vestiges of the old order until late eighties when the old traditional men began to give way. I think some of these stories and more informed the writing.
JU
I am right! Now, in the past, as I am told, Igbo children are not allowed to observe a funeral ceremony. They are huddled indoors until after the moment of internment. Now, while at Umuele, an eight year old Isikamdi participated in a mock funeral ceremony during play with other children and it was “so befitting… that it drew the attention of adults in the family [pg 128, line 17, 19], how did they become aware of the proceedings?
OU
In my family they observed. What was shielded from them was the inner ceremonies that took place before a burial is done. It is usually passworded and never allowed women and children. You will see just a bit of it in the burial of the Isi-ani. That is a standard burial ceremony of the old traditional men in my family and I witnessed them on two or three occasions in the early eighties. The full ceremony cannot be written in a novel. It would look too anthropological that it may weaken the pace and texture of the story.
JU
Why was there no protective encounter between Agubata of Mbaozo, the old former head of the Spider group, and Odidika, the future Flute bearer? Was Agubata, the mystic, not powerful enough to foresee that the boy, Odidika, in his son’s custody would have a lot to do with the all-important sacred flute in future, seeing also that a daredevil Ikebuasi was living next door, and more so when his close friend and successor, Fiberesima, knew too much [Fiberesima had searched Odidika’s possessions for a flute while the young was asleep pg. 147, he learnt that … through (Obidi) the flute bearer will appear pg. 190]? If he foresaw this, why was he the way he is: a secretive and mysterious person who asked his own son, Mbandu, to go see a diviner, Udeagbala, in order to fortify his compound [Pg 41, line 22] instead of just protecting his son with his far more superior powers?
OU
Agubata’s family migrated to Mbaozo and later to Mbaosu for a particular purpose – to restore the pride. Agubata is a man of immense powers but he is a human who worships a god that can keep secrets from him, if it is not meant for him. Agubata has some powers but not all powers. He needs a diviner to tell him some things because he is equally not all knowing. Remember, he is possessed by task of finding the flute and all his life in ‘Treasure in the Winds’ and ‘Pride of the Spider Clan’ is geared towards that. A careful reading would reveal to you that it is not focused on finding the future bearer of the flute or builder of the dream Clan. This is in better details in ‘Treasure in the Winds. ’ Agubata towards the end of his life reveals his suspicions regarding Odidika’s involvement to Mbandu. It was also when he reveal their own well kept family secret to Mbandu. That was when he did what all the sages did when recruiting their sons into the Spider Clan. About Fiberesima and Agubata; there is nothing Fiberesima knows that Agubata does not know because they are very close both on physical and spiritual planes. Above all, their roles are well structured and their territories marked clearly in the Spider Clan.
JU
You sure know your onions well. Ok, with the amazing detective and secretive spider network of the Aro men and a handy literary Nsibidi and a very powerful centripetal force, the Ibinukpabi and its far-reaching Chief Priest and Eze Aro, necessary historical ingredients for an empire, it is a wonder that an Igbo empire, as great, famous and literate as the Mali or Ghana, never arose from these ready factors. Was the failure to build an empire the result of a lost historical treasure as symbolized by the flute in your novel? And aha—is the sacred ofo flute in your novel trying to fill the gap of why there was no great historical Igbo empire, greater than Idu N’Oba? What is your take on this?
OU
Don’t be deceived, Jeff. When you tell your stories well the world would agree that you had an empire. Go and look at the Ife Bronze and look at the Ichi on any Igbo man’s face and you will see the resemblance. Yet there is no Yoruba man who has that kind of scarification. My father was scarified. All the first sons of my family use to bear those marks until Christianity stopped it. There is so much to show about the kind of civilization the Olu N’Igbo had but that would be for another day.
Civilizations that were not monarchical have always looked at the grandeur of monarchy with admiration. That was the case of the relationship between the Eastern city states and the Idu N’Oba kingdom. Eze Aro was not a monarch but a priest and king. So was Eze Nri. They influenced series of city-states not with arms or force but persuasion about the need to serve two gods. The one who is the greatest of all terrestrial gods - Ani, and the greatest of all gods chi-ukwu a.k.a Ibinukpabi (ebu na ukpa abia) carried in a long basket. The later god has no name but a description because his name could not be uttered by any man. The cousins of the Aro, Efik call it Udang Usang (carried in a basin). The discussion on the relationship between Eze Nri and Eze Aro is not the subject of your question but would be the one to lead you into understanding the kind of Civilization which controlled trade, industry and mining in the whole of South-Eastern Nigeria of old.
JU
We are sure listening! Right on point. Ok, Okafọ Ekwe told Isikamdi that if he did not find the ofo flute after combing Olu N’Igbo, he should head straight to Kirike where Fiberesima, their Spider leader and an Izon of Aro ancestry, was [and that “if this very man fails to help you, then Ibinukpabi has, for the very first time, lied,” “That can’t be possible.” Pg 307, line 21]. Naturally, a man smarter than Isikamdi would have avoided the rigmarole of combing his country and just headed straight to Kirike, if to save time and return home to his already tensile family with a flute that would remove the old curse of loss of male children, especially then that Ijenna his wife and Odidika’s daughter was pregnant. Is it to reveal other very important bits of information to fill out the main and sub plots that Isikamdi’s peregrination was essential or your admirable wizardry in creating suspense that was at work?
OU
You did read Pride of the Spider Clan and have an understanding of it. No. The author was more interested in the spiritual part of Isikamdi’s journey. Isikamdi needed to walk the paths the flute had walked in order to purge himself of the old order. It is a kind of ritual which he needed to perform in order to qualify himself for the role of finding the flute. If you read beyond the lines, you will notice that he discovered some things in those seemingly useless trips to Obosi. Remember, the marks on the door and the headdress for the Kalabari masquerade called Otobo. These were not just fill-ins but pointers to help the reader deconstruct the book.
JU
This is very revealing. Thank you. Now, how did Eze Kambite know Odidika was in danger and then came along and how did he kill the man at death hill, saving Odidika?
OU
We only inferred that he saved him. We did not tell you so, you rather concluded that he did.
JU
Hahaha! Oh yeah, the net was spread for my mind to be trapped. Ok…. How did the real flute in the ceiling of “an ignorant man’s kitchen” as revealed “in one of their (spider) meetings” in page 191 turned out to be a fake towards the end of the novel after Isikamdi went to Adiabuabili’s old kitchen, retrieved it from where Adiabuabili had kept it inside the ceiling [pg 396] and brought it home (another fake flute, possibly the one Ekediukwu snatched during the night raid, also appeared at Piriye’s doorstep)?
OU
This is the problem of Pride of the Spider Clan. It cannot as a single book tell the story of the three books. In ‘Treasure in the winds,’ two duplicates of the flute were made by Ukwuoma the Obosi carver’s servant before he died. He gave the original flute and a duplicate bearing the Nsibidi mark to show that it was not the original (this was the house rule of all carvers that were in the Spider Clan) to Ozodimma the flutist. Ozodi swapped the original with the fake and gave it to Adamma. She took the fake home. It ended in her family kitchen ceiling. The original was lost by Ozodimma at the Battle of the Great river to Odidika and his men. There was a third flute (There was no Nsibidi sign on this) which is the second duplicate. Ukwuoma had kept it for himself. It was this flute that Ubadimbudi found and took to Eze Aro. It was later transferred to Fiberesima to use in identifying the original flute whenever it entered Kirike (Okirika). Fiberesima had that flute all the while. He still kept it even when he found the original. It was this unmarked duplicate that Piriye found at her doorstep. Ekediukwu’s flute was not a copy of the original. It was a different flute altogether.
JU
Hmmm. That clears my head. Now, why is it that the head of the Aro Spider group, Fiberesima, kept the secret of his possession of the real flute from other Aro spider members (especially Ekediukwu and Ekwe), [Ezediukwu said this: the day Odidika was leaving Kirike, an eerie sound of a flute filled the air pg. 348, line 31 meaning that Fiberesima blew the real magical flute to guide Odidika out of Kirike. Also, Ekwe said this: There is also Ezediukwu…. He is as deep in the cause of finding the lost sacred flute as I am and as you are pg. 306/307]. Why this extreme secrecy on the part of Fiberesima which made the Nwa Aro’s quest an adventure and made Ekwe and other members of the arcane group not able to touch the flute before they died?
OU
Fiberesima kept the flute because the Priest at the Ibinukpabi shrine, as part of his injunctions, said that Fiberesima must not leave Okirika (Kirike) the moment he finds the flute. He said that he must wait for Nwa Aro who would discover him and the flute. Using and touching the flute was not what ‘the legs of the spider clan’ were interested in. They want the Pride to be built. There primary role is to find the flute so that when Nwa Aro comes they would be the ones to hand over the flute to him. Everyone had a station and territory which he guarded so that the flute would not fall into the wrong hands. Nwa Aro must come and discover it. Like I said earlier, Nwa Aro has to perform his own role. So Fiberesima was doing all he could to get the flute across to the one who mattered the most – Nwa Aro and not to his colleagues.
JU
Very insightful…. Now, Odidika knows that if he hands over the flute to Isikamdi, he as the current isi-ani of the Osondu isi-ani lineage would have handed over power to the rightful royal family of Mbaozo, Ezechukwu’s family, and the family will now build an even greater kingdom after the albino ritual is completed (another novel?). Yet Odidika will do so in consonance with the oracle’s prediction because Ibinukpabi never lies and because he loves Ijenna his daughter and wouldn’t want the curse on Ezechukwu’s family to continue. This is a lesson for African rulers who cling to power at all costs, the Ochendos of this world. In Nigeria, the situation is different and what you said in my facebook wall is admirable: “For over 50 years we have been groping in the dark searching for - the light - the secret code to realizing the seemingly elusive 'Pride of the Spider Clan.”
Now what do you recommend for us to do to find the sacred flute of progress in Nigeria and also to instill in us the spirit of the Odidika altruism?
OU
The solution to our national tragedy is not found in Odidika but in Isikamdi. He was the one who knew he had a problem. His family was born great but missed it somewhere. He needs to forget his selfish interest, his mother’s (ethnic group) stories about his uncle and turn towards solving the problem. His sacrifice should not be just for him and his immediate family but to shed the self in the interest of the whole. Eze Kambite’s words of wisdom should continue to help us as a nation to build a strong forte for greatness. He alluded to a wisdom that is like the wings of mother hen. Wings not fitted for flying to farther lands for gathering its brood together. On another occasion he reminded Isikamdi that that the cord that bound them together could not be severed. Yet when reconciling with his mother Kambite also told Isikamdi that in the forge of family unity we need an inexhaustible fuel of tolerance. We can be the greatest country, better than the developed worlds of today (Idu N’Oba) if we could shed the need to acquire for self rather than for all and commit our lives to building a country which generations unborn would be proud of. The flute is the breath, the energy and the spirit to conquer the elemental weight of our selfish desires. That is my understanding of Pride of the Spider Clan but I am sure some people could have better reading of the book.
JU
Pardon my ignorance, what is the meaning of planting an ogirisi tree over a grave [she begged me to find her grave and plant an ogirisi tree on it, but I was even too late to do her that justice pg 60, line 11]?
OU
The Ogirisi is an evergreen tree. You use the ogirisi to mark a grave. Most times it is to know where people were buried. Remember the Nze, who has spiritual title, and some kinds of Igbo priests would not cross a grave or they get despoiled. Ogirisi is therefore necessary for them to know where to cross or not.
On a much lighter, if funny, note:
JU: Who is the protagonist of this novel, Odidika or Isikamdi? Must a novel even have a protagonist?
OU: I would say it is Isikamdi because he is the one who does all the important things and takes all the important risks and makes all the mistakes. Odidika’s life was truly a selfish one and the book is all about group survival.
JU: Where did the word “tata” [for a baby] come from, is it an Igbo word?
OU: Tata is universal baby one. It is the first thing most babies say. You don’t need the teeth to say tata so babies are easily associated with the sounds they make.
JU: Wow, this is a first for me: Okpokodudu is the name for beans! Now, is Agwa a later or concurrent version?
OU: I actually forgot to credit the author of that story in the acknowledgements but I will correct it in the next issue. It was actually translated from ‘Mbe di Ogu’ written by F.C. Ogbalu. Okpokodudu is a species of beans. It is a large species of beans. I think its proper name is cowpea. It is not the regular Agwa you are used to.
JU: Nyu tu! That is caricatured English for “You too”! Did Mbandu’s household know any English? Or is this only a mirror of the caricatured Igbo version?
OU: It is just a mirror of the caricature.
JU: Thank you Sir for this scintillating and invigorating interview with you. And aha, the eagle will be ahead of you and the eagle will be behind you….
OU: May you be provided with what to eat and be protected from what will eat you…
JU: Amen!
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